Stanced Van.

"The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock" (jukesjukesjukes) 12/28/2016 at 01:00 • Filed to: None

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TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock 12/28/2016 at 01:11

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*slammed van*

Svend > The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock 12/28/2016 at 02:36

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There are van owners that takes their vans and campers very seriously.

The two main festivals are Vanfest (which is open to anyone) and Busfest (which is for VW owners).

The main ones are VW T5 and Caddys.

Sam > Svend 12/28/2016 at 02:41

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Svend > Sam 12/28/2016 at 02:43

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Whats that?

Sam > Svend 12/28/2016 at 02:46

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Honda Odyssey minivan.

Svend > Sam 12/28/2016 at 03:05

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Oh cool. We don’t get those here.

Ones we get are:

Citroen Grand C4 Picasso.

Renault Grand Scenic

Ford Grand C Max, C Max, S Max and Galaxy.

Kia Carens.

bhtooefr > Svend 12/28/2016 at 06:18

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American minivans are quite a bit bigger, for the most part, than your MPVs. (The exception would be whatever brand the Grand Voyager was sold under (it’s been sold under both Chrysler and Lancia brands in Europe) - that vehicle is the same vehicle as our Dodge Grand Caravan and Chrysler Town and Country, which was the vehicle that defined the class here.)

And, between the larger size, our insistence on automatic transmissions especially in family vehicles, and our poor infrastructure and poor driver quality, more power is demanded, and all of these have large V6 engines.

These are our minivans:

Chrysler Pacifica (normal powertrain: 3.6 V6, 287 hp, 9-speed automatic, FWD; plug-in hybrid powertrain: 3.6 Atkinson-cycle V6, 248 hp, 2-motor e-CVT, 260 total system hp, FWD):

Dodge Grand Caravan (3.6 V6, 283 hp, 6-speed automatic, FWD) (a nicer version of this is what you got as the Chrysler/Lancia Grand Voyager, although with a 2.8 diesel, I believe)

Honda Odyssey (3.5 V6, 248 hp, 6-speed automatic, FWD):

Kia Sedona (3.3 V6, 276 hp, 6-speed automatic, FWD):

Nissan Quest (3.5 V6, 260 hp, CVT, FWD):

Toyota Sienna (3.5 V6, 296 hp, 8-speed automatic, FWD or AWD):

The most popular ones are the Sienna, Odyssey, and the Chrysler ones (both Dodge and Chrysler-branded). Note that in most cases, there’s only the one powertrain option, and 4-cylinder options have been dropped - it’s all 250-300 hp or so V6s. The exception is that you can choose to have AWD on the Sienna (the Chrysler Town & Country (predecessor to the Pacifica) used to have that option, but Chrysler designed a seating configuration, Stow ‘n Go, that folds the seats into the floor, and that was more popular than AWD for minivan buyers, and couldn’t be combined with AWD (the seat stowage areas interfered with the driveshaft tunnel)), and you can get a plug-in hybrid version of the Pacifica (but still with the V6).

Also, all of these products are designed for the US market first, with the exception of the Nissan Quest, which is a US-market widened and cheapened version of the Nissan Elgrand.

And this is actually a shrinking segment in the US - a lot of people are going for crossovers, instead, because of an insistence on AWD and wanting more rugged styling, even though crossovers have worse space utilization.

There is one compact minivan in the US aimed at passenger (instead of cargo) use, the Ford Transit Connect Wagon (your Tourneo Connect). We get it with a 2.5 liter I4 making 169 hp and a 6-speed automatic (there used to be a 1.6 EcoBoost I4, but it’s gone for 2017). Not sure how well it sells, although I don’t think it has to sell well to justify its existence as a product - it can ride on the coat tails of the Transit Connect’s (cargo version) certifications. The C-Max is more of a tall hatchback than a minivan (doesn’t even have a third row available), and we get it in hybrid and plug-in hybrid versions (2.0 Atkinson-cycle I4 making 141 hp, with a 2-motor e-CVT, and 188-195 system hp), but it doesn’t really sell (Ford tried to bring it here as a hybrid-exclusive to be a Prius-fighter... and then got into a fuel economy scandal with it, which will kill any Prius-fighter), and we don’t get the Grand C-Max or S-Max. We also used to get the Mazda5 (which is basically a Grand C-Max, had a 2.5 I4 making 157 hp, through either a 6-speed manual (the first manual minivan in the US market since 1995) or a 6-speed automatic), but that didn’t sell, so it got discontinued.

Svend > bhtooefr 12/28/2016 at 06:51

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The only thing we have of that size are vans that have been converted.

Vauxhall/Opel Vivaro, Fiat Talento and Nissan NV300.

Ford Custom Tourneo

etc...

Most families with three plus children use the smaller (to the U.S.) MPVs.

Very few families are large enough to warrant anything of the van variety. Some gravitate to the VW T5 Transporter for it’s easy living and reliable nature.

bhtooefr > Svend 12/28/2016 at 07:02

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Note that our minivans are usually 7-8 seaters, same as your larger MPVs as far as I’m aware, just with more room both between the seats and behind the third row. The US market tends to want that many seats so that you can get 2-3 of your own children, including enough space so that they can’t hit each other or enough space for absurdly huge car seats (either of which immediately requires a third row), in normal use... and then the ability to haul friends or family in the same car... and a fair amount of cargo for everyone behind the third row.

The Transporter is a fair bit bigger than the US minivans (we got the T4 as the Eurovan), nearly reaching the size of a shorter configuration of a US full-size van (which is much lower roof than a European full-size van - for instance, we get a low-roof full-size Transit, intended to replace the Econoline, that Europe doesn’t get AFAIK).

Americans also tend to buy the maximum capability that they think they’ll ever need, rather than the capability that they need on a daily basis and rent when more capacity is needed. Of course, that also means buying a lot more off-road capability than they think they need... which means that this is our actual best-selling three-row vehicle, with very similar exterior dimensions to the best-selling minivan (the Sienna), but worse interior packaging:

And, instead of a compact MPV, we’d buy a compact crossover.

Svend > bhtooefr 12/28/2016 at 07:28

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We get the full size Transit in four main configurations, two lengths and two heights. As you point out the U.S. gets a third lower height where elsewhere gets the Transit Custom, available in two lengths.

I’ve never thought the T5 was all that big really, well not that much bigger than it’s sister the VW Sharan.

I’m seeing more and more going for small SUVs or CUVs.

Namely Nissan QashQais, etc...

Ye’, because of parking, practicality, cost, economy, etc... people tend to buy what is needed to get what they have moving rather than going all out for something that may cater for all eventualities.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock 12/28/2016 at 07:40

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Since when does lowering=stanced? I was pretty sure the line between those was the amount of camber on the wheels.

bhtooefr > Svend 12/28/2016 at 07:58

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To put things in perspective, here’s our 25 best-selling vehicles:

Ford F-Series (full-size pickup - a lot of these are really used for what they’re intended for (hauling cargo, towing, going off-road), but a lot are used as penis enhancers)

Chevrolet Silverado (ditto)

Ram Pickup (ditto)

Toyota Camry (closest equivalent you’ve got is the Avensis, but it’s quite a bit smaller)

Toyota Corolla (the vast majority of these are the Corolla sedan, which I know Ireland gets, but a few of these are the Scion iM/Toyota Corolla iM (Toyota’s counting leftover Scion iM sales as Corolla sales, it seems), which is the Auris)

Honda Civic (this is the new world Civic)

Honda CR-V (you get this)

Toyota RAV4 (you get this too)

Honda Accord (closest equivalent would be the former Euro Accord, but that was quite a bit smaller)

Nissan Rogue (US version of the X-Trail, now)

Nissan Altima (I don’t think you have an equivalent? Same class as the Camry and Accord above and the Fusion and Malibu below)

Ford Escape (US version of the Kuga)

Ford Fusion (US version of the Mondeo, although ours has a trunk lid instead of a liftback (like the Mondeo Hybrid), and we don’t get the wagon)

Ford Explorer (discussed above)

Chevrolet Equinox (closest relative you have is the Opel Antara, but that’s the Chevrolet Captiva in the US, and is a shorter wheelbase vehicle)

Chevrolet Malibu (think a seriously cheapened Opel Insignia)

GMC Sierra (same thing as the Chevrolet Silverado, just slightly nicer - note that combining Silverado and Sierra sales still puts them slightly behind the F-Series)

Nissan Sentra (I think it’s basically a Pulsar sedan)

Jeep Grand Cherokee (you get this)

Hyundai Elantra (i30 sedan)

Hyundai Sonata (closest equivalent is the i40, but it’s bigger than the i40)

Jeep Cherokee (you get this)

Jeep Wrangler (you get this too)

Toyota Tacoma (think a seriously cheapened and slightly enlarged Hilux, and you’ve pretty much got it)

Chevrolet Cruze (you got the previous one, but if you’re not familiar, think seriously cheapened Opel Astra, and we get a sedan version in addition to a hatchback that just came out)

Also, note that with two exceptions, when an automaker sells a two-row compact (but not subcompact) crossover and a midsize sedan, the crossover beats it in sales, in that top-25 - the CR-V outsells the Accord, the Rogue outsells the Altima, the Escape outsells the Fusion, the Equinox outsells the Malibu. The exceptions are that the Camry outsells the RAV4, and the Sonata’s crossover counterparts are split between two models - the Tucson (on the small side) and the Santa Fe Sport (on the big side) - and no one model exceeds its sales, but sales figures only report the Tucson, and all Santa Fes (including the regular three-row model) combined, so I can’t tell whether the Tucson and Santa Fe Sport beat the Sonata together.

Svend > bhtooefr 12/28/2016 at 13:58

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I see some of those carry over into the U.K. market though ours is small to midsize hatch based.

1, Ford Fiesta,

2, Vauxhall Astra hatchback,

3, VW Golf hatchback,

4, Vauxhall Corsa hatchback,

5, Ford Focus hatchback,

6, Nissan QashQai SUV,

7, Mini hatchback,

8, VW Polo hatchback,

9, Audi A3 Sportbach hatchback,

10, Mercedes C-Class saloon.

I think a lot of Europe would be very similar really.

Small compact, economical, practical cars that can carry four persons easily. Narrow and short enough to get into small spaces and narrow lanes of traffic.

There was a builder who used to own a new Ford F150 last year. After a few months he sold it and got a Mitsubishi L200 Warrior.

Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy > Sam 01/23/2017 at 05:12

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and the asian one at that! Shame the USDM model looks nothing like it.